Disciple: Master, we all know that it is very crucial to abstain from the eating of meat because we know this increases our karmas, but can you explain to those who are newly interested in this path what the real reason is for becoming a vegetarian?
Thakar Singh: You see, we are not to increase our burden of karmas as you have already told. That there is value of every kind of thing we use in this world. The air we use, we have to pay for it. The water we use, we have to pay for it. The light of sun or moon is there not also free for us. And that this green grass what is there, that is also to be paid for, nothing is free. But if you are to make your house, don’t make it of gold or silver or jewels. That will also be just a house, nothing very much special. But if you can make the house of stones, it is very easy and very inexpensive. Then why don’t we make our house of stones and bricks, etc.? Why of gold?
In the same way, if we can maintain our life very simply, with very less cost of this greenery, then why should we attract so much burden and payment and payment of karmas? As the life goes on in the creeping ones, there is a great difference of payment of life. Anything that creepeth on earth, we are not allowed to use it. We are only allowed to have the fruit of the fruit trees and whatever is grown on the table of this earth. That God had been wise enough to guide us, to tell us that what is really most useful for you. That you can maintain your life with least burden. Although God also did not say that it is burdenless, it is all free. He has never explained like this also. But He has allowed us because with our meditations we can release ourselves very quickly and easily and therefore we are not to burden ourselves.
Moreover some other complications are also there. As now the scientists have come to know that all the living beings have some kind of minds and feelings. And when you are a little disturbed, your whole nervous system is disturbed and that so many poisons and poisons are there coming up, growing in you. And in that state if you die, further also you suffer very much. As those people who commit suicide, at that time the condition of the mind is really very hard, really very horrible because the condition was suchlike that you had to commit suicide. And that if that person has to make suicide in that condition of the heart, that will go on and continue for long, long, long, long times, that person will have to suffer.
This is also the case with the people who eat those animals, their flesh, that their (the animal’s) nervous system had been very much disturbed, very much disturbed. Even if you look at an animal (being) killed, you will be effected, your nervous system will be disturbed and you will lose so much peace. You will not feel good. …
If this is the case just looking at (the killing of an animal), then what is the case that when we eat it? And that all these vibrations enter into our system and that so many diseases and mental systems are disturbed and disturbed. But when we eat some greenery, this wonderful fruit, everything is wonderful. You look at the fruit which is ready, the colours tell you so wonderful, fragrance is there and you smell it and you enjoy it and when you remember it, you really enjoy. Your heart is also enjoying, your mind is also at peace and your body is also at peace.
So my dear, God has all sympathy for us and if He has told, recommended some things for us, we should accept (them) and we should not impose our minds and our intellects into the wisdom of God. So that is why in Bible and all other scriptures, very clearly the man has been told, “(do) not do this, do this only, do this, (do) not do that.” Everything is very clearly told to us but why don’t we accept those commandments? If we do not accept (them), there will be some difficulty. So let us accept and then after some time when you are lifted up, you yourself will see how horrible it is.
As all the trees and plants are there, they do not hurt each other. Independently they grow, independently they love each other but there is no difficulty from each other. But why is there difficulty from us at least who have known the law, who know the laws? In between the animals and birds, there is not much confusion because there is no understanding. They have not (been) given this law to be known. But the human being is not to be excused that, “I did not know.” That innocence is no excuse for human being. Man is to know, to have knowledge of everything and in that light of knowledge he has to act. If he says, “I was not told”, then nobody will listen to him because man has been given every kind of knowledge and wisdom in him. If he doesn’t use it, it is his own fault. Why should not he use it? If you have been given eyes and you are closing the eyes and then walking and you fall into a ditch and then you ask somebody, “Why have you made this ditch that I have fallen into?” Then he looks at him, “Have you not got eyes? Why has God given you eyes? For this purpose that there is a ditch or something stumbling point everywhere, everywhere. But God has also given you eyes to see.”
So you have been given wisdom, you have been given knowledge, you have been given soul to know everything and in that light of inner light you are to live with all that Godly wisdom. So my dear, the details are there, very much great and great, but this simple thing is there that people will come to know how horrible is this action to kill another living being who is not allowed by God.
Disciple: You very clearly explained the need for vegetarian diet, but the one question that many people ask is what about eggs and unfertilized eggs. Is there a leniency on this or is this right?
Thakar Singh: You see, that is (like) a child in the womb of a mother. Do you understand it? That is a child in the womb of a mother. If the womb of the mother is used and if the egg is used, it is the same thing, it is the same thing. Egg needs only 20 days or 22 days and in the womb of the mother is needed for 9 or 10 months. But both are a process in which the child is completed. Child is completed in the womb of the mother and child is completed in the egg. And when we kill, when we break the egg or we hurt it, the inner life of the living being who had to find life after 10 days, 20 day or 30 days, that is killed. As abortion is also not allowed. It may be that so many governments have allowed it that it is not illegal. But it is not legal in the kingdom of God. Those laws are still there.
And previously the laws in this world were made by consultation of the saints and Masters. That those people who live in this world should only act in a way that what other rules are there in the kingdom of God, that the same thing may be supported here. Anything opposite may not be here that you should do here and over there it is a sin. Some cooperation should be there. That these people should do only those things which are allowed in kingdom of God and not do those things which are not allowed in kingdom of God. But as long as the saints and Masters were consulted, the things went on normally, properly, but afterwards the people had their own minds and they could not understand. … So egg also, when we use it, we break it or in any way, it is also a crime.
Disciple: Is it also then a sin to eat a carrot? Some people say there is karma in eating vegetables also.
Thakar Singh: There is a karma in everything, but very little karma is there in eating vegetables or fruit. This is very small and can be paid off. It has to be paid off, you can’t be free of that either.
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